Comments on: Drupal’s prominence is hurting the growth of the PHP frameworks, such as Symfony http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301 Nerds who love the symfony-project Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:34:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: francescoagati http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-1050 francescoagati Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:24:48 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-1050 i believe that make a comparison between ruby and php for example isn't possible. Ruby and php are two language completely differents. Php si a language for make web scripting. Ruby is more for metaprogramming and other application that require more complexity and capacity of high abstraction of the code via dsl and metaprogramming i believe that make a comparison between ruby and php for example isn’t possible.

Ruby and php are two language completely differents. Php si a language for make web scripting. Ruby is more for metaprogramming and other application that require more complexity and capacity of high abstraction of the code via dsl and metaprogramming

]]> By: A new website, and some thoughts on choosing Symfony http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-717 A new website, and some thoughts on choosing Symfony Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:34:34 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-717 [...] Last month I complained about the prominence of Drupal. The comments in that thread show that Drupal has some very strong supporters. However, Drupal started life as a CMS, and still shows some traces of that, in terms of assumptions about database structure. Also, its files live within the directory of the server that is made available to the public on the web, something I regard as a security risk. Karl made a good point in a comment in that thread: Interesting here is that I looked at drupal, but choose not to use it, instead, Symfony was the choice. The two biggest reasons was 3rd party integration with quickbooks and scalability, we were afraid that drupals datamodel would cause us headaches at the end. [...] [...] Last month I complained about the prominence of Drupal. The comments in that thread show that Drupal has some very strong supporters. However, Drupal started life as a CMS, and still shows some traces of that, in terms of assumptions about database structure. Also, its files live within the directory of the server that is made available to the public on the web, something I regard as a security risk. Karl made a good point in a comment in that thread: Interesting here is that I looked at drupal, but choose not to use it, instead, Symfony was the choice. The two biggest reasons was 3rd party integration with quickbooks and scalability, we were afraid that drupals datamodel would cause us headaches at the end. [...]

]]> By: James Herrmann http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-682 James Herrmann Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:00:33 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-682 I agree that there is a mass-misconception in the PHP space about what a framework is versus a CMS. My suspicion is that many consider them one in the same and are ignorant to the benefits that a true framework can provide. Most website developers want to bring products to market quickly and with as little learning curve as possible. In other words, they don't want to learn a framework and they want to make fast money. Drupal can be the answer if these are the questions you're asking. What are the questions asked that lead to the answer of 'Symfony', 'Cake', or 'Solar'? I have a feeling they would entail infinite extensibility, unit testing, bridging with other libraries, optimization and security, to name a few. I agree that there is a mass-misconception in the PHP space about what a framework is versus a CMS. My suspicion is that many consider them one in the same and are ignorant to the benefits that a true framework can provide.

Most website developers want to bring products to market quickly and with as little learning curve as possible. In other words, they don’t want to learn a framework and they want to make fast money. Drupal can be the answer if these are the questions you’re asking.

What are the questions asked that lead to the answer of ‘Symfony’, ‘Cake’, or ‘Solar’? I have a feeling they would entail infinite extensibility, unit testing, bridging with other libraries, optimization and security, to name a few.

]]> By: Drupal Developer http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-605 Drupal Developer Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:18:23 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-605 Yeah I can definitely understand this pain. Right now their are lots of CMS platforms: Drupal, Joomla, DotNetNuke, etc. that has 80% of website features out of the box. Often times you can use thinks like CCK and views to get some of that extra 20%... but sometimes that 80% is a real pain in the ass to customize. That's when you look and see if Django or RoR or Symphony can give you a framework that can get you what you need in less time and perhaps give you more flexibility. It's so many trade offs, really i guess it's the build versus buy argument. Yeah I can definitely understand this pain. Right now their are lots of CMS platforms: Drupal, Joomla, DotNetNuke, etc. that has 80% of website features out of the box. Often times you can use thinks like CCK and views to get some of that extra 20%… but sometimes that 80% is a real pain in the ass to customize. That’s when you look and see if Django or RoR or Symphony can give you a framework that can get you what you need in less time and perhaps give you more flexibility. It’s so many trade offs, really i guess it’s the build versus buy argument.

]]> By: ServerGrove Blog » Blog Archive » Is Drupal’s success hurting PHP frameworks? http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-598 ServerGrove Blog » Blog Archive » Is Drupal’s success hurting PHP frameworks? Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:38:31 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-598 [...] recent blog post at symfonynerds stated that the popularity of Drupal was hindering the success of PHP frameworks, especially [...] [...] recent blog post at symfonynerds stated that the popularity of Drupal was hindering the success of PHP frameworks, especially [...]

]]> By: K http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-596 K Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:05:48 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-596 Drupal's creator, Dries Buytaert, repeatedly refers to Drupal as a Framework: http://buytaert.net/8-steps-for-drupal-8 In many senses, it can be used a framework, so I don't see a problem with referring to it as such if that is how you are using it. However, that said, I agree with Jared, stop blaming Drupal for your inability to do PR, it makes me less likely to want to explore Symfony. Drupal’s creator, Dries Buytaert, repeatedly refers to Drupal as a Framework: http://buytaert.net/8-steps-for-drupal-8

In many senses, it can be used a framework, so I don’t see a problem with referring to it as such if that is how you are using it.

However, that said, I agree with Jared, stop blaming Drupal for your inability to do PR, it makes me less likely to want to explore Symfony.

]]> By: Tom Boutell http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-595 Tom Boutell Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:32:32 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-595 Thanks for the kind words about Apostrophe! By all means please try Apostrophe if you are looking for a CMS that is deeply integrated into the Symfony framework. For Symfony devs, the killer feature of Apostrophe is probably support for "engines," standard Symfony modules bolted directly into the CMS page tree wherever the admin wishes to put them. For your clients, the killer feature is strong in-context editing, picking up where sfSimpleCMS left off. We're also pleased with the HTML filter that cleans up any messes left behind by the rich text editor. If you've ever had a client's site break because they pasted some stuff from Word, you'll appreciate this feature. You can check it out here, both a live demo and links to the code: http://apostrophenow.com/ Definitely check out the installation section and take advantage of the 'cmstest' svn project. We've already dealt with all of the dependencies there, and we've also released a script to duplicate the project in your own repo with svn externals intact. It's not out of the question that we'll do a single-click install for folks who don't know Symfony at all. Try our demo for an example of that: it spins up a new and completely distinct CMS site on the fly. But right now we're reaping the benefits of engaging with the Symfony developer community by releasing our CMS in a form that works for Symfony developers. That has generated great bug reports, feature requests and even bug fixes for us. Thanks for the kind words about Apostrophe! By all means please try Apostrophe if you are looking for a CMS that is deeply integrated into the Symfony framework.

For Symfony devs, the killer feature of Apostrophe is probably support for “engines,” standard Symfony modules bolted directly into the CMS page tree wherever the admin wishes to put them. For your clients, the killer feature is strong in-context editing, picking up where sfSimpleCMS left off. We’re also pleased with the HTML filter that cleans up any messes left behind by the rich text editor. If you’ve ever had a client’s site break because they pasted some stuff from Word, you’ll appreciate this feature.

You can check it out here, both a live demo and links to the code:

http://apostrophenow.com/

Definitely check out the installation section and take advantage of the ‘cmstest’ svn project. We’ve already dealt with all of the dependencies there, and we’ve also released a script to duplicate the project in your own repo with svn externals intact.

It’s not out of the question that we’ll do a single-click install for folks who don’t know Symfony at all. Try our demo for an example of that: it spins up a new and completely distinct CMS site on the fly. But right now we’re reaping the benefits of engaging with the Symfony developer community by releasing our CMS in a form that works for Symfony developers. That has generated great bug reports, feature requests and even bug fixes for us.

]]> By: Jared http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-594 Jared Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:56:41 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-594 Bah, use the right tool for the job. Anything other than that, and you are setting yourself up for failure. This sounds a lot like "me too". There is so much hubris here, it's suffocating. "My tool is better than drupal, and you should know that!" I agree, Drupal should not be compared to true frameworks (it's a content management framework at best). However, stop blaming Drupal for your inability to get the word out about your project of choice. You are responsible for your own PR. Bah, use the right tool for the job. Anything other than that, and you are setting yourself up for failure. This sounds a lot like “me too”. There is so much hubris here, it’s suffocating. “My tool is better than drupal, and you should know that!” I agree, Drupal should not be compared to true frameworks (it’s a content management framework at best). However, stop blaming Drupal for your inability to get the word out about your project of choice. You are responsible for your own PR.

]]> By: Tenshu http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-593 Tenshu Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:25:19 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-593 Our company forced us (developer) to switch from symfony to drupal. Their excuse was that switching from 1.1 to 1.2 was time consuming. But the real reason is because they are still hoping for fast automagical CMS that would met all requirement. Look with drupal they could even 'develop' some piece of the website (in fact they are breaking it most of the time). This switch is a complete nightmare, we are loosing huge amount of time on trivial functionality. Even worse internationalisation sucks so hard i couldn't believe it. Html intégration is ugly because you never know where to overide this markup or removing the junk autogenerated. Guess what happened? Our manager nearly get fired and we are reswitching under Symfony. Our company forced us (developer) to switch from symfony to drupal. Their excuse was that switching from 1.1 to 1.2 was time consuming. But the real reason is because they are still hoping for fast automagical CMS that would met all requirement. Look with drupal they could even ‘develop’ some piece of the website (in fact they are breaking it most of the time).

This switch is a complete nightmare, we are loosing huge amount of time on trivial functionality. Even worse internationalisation sucks so hard i couldn’t believe it.

Html intégration is ugly because you never know where to overide this markup or removing the junk autogenerated.

Guess what happened? Our manager nearly get fired and we are reswitching under Symfony.

]]> By: lawrence http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-590 lawrence Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:40:56 +0000 http://symfonynerds.com/blog/?p=301#comment-590 @oelmekki - I'm glad you mentioned the issue with server config and virtual hosts. I suppose that is the area where PHP has the greatest advantage, being installed everywhere - at the low end. Frameworks like Rails and Symfony tend to be used for larger projects where the developer probably has control of the server, so PHP's ubiquity is less of an advantage in that scenario. @Matt - thanks for the heads-up about Joomla. I had absolutely no idea how popular it was. I was surprised to see it rank so highly on Google Trends: http://www.google.com/trends?q=symfony,+zend+framework,+drupal,+joomla,+wordpress&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 I do think CMS built on top of Symfony, like what Jonathon Wage and Tom Boutell have done, may help Symfony's profile, though I suspect that is not the whole answer itself. I don't think Symfony will ever be able to offer the one-click install that some PHP CMS's offer. I think the argument has to be something like: "Symfony is an excellent object oriented framework written in the most popular web development language, and therefore allows ease of development for sophisticated software in a language that has a great abundance of programmers." @oelmekki - I’m glad you mentioned the issue with server config and virtual hosts. I suppose that is the area where PHP has the greatest advantage, being installed everywhere - at the low end. Frameworks like Rails and Symfony tend to be used for larger projects where the developer probably has control of the server, so PHP’s ubiquity is less of an advantage in that scenario.

@Matt - thanks for the heads-up about Joomla. I had absolutely no idea how popular it was. I was surprised to see it rank so highly on Google Trends:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=symfony,+zend+framework,+drupal,+joomla,+wordpress&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

I do think CMS built on top of Symfony, like what Jonathon Wage and Tom Boutell have done, may help Symfony’s profile, though I suspect that is not the whole answer itself. I don’t think Symfony will ever be able to offer the one-click install that some PHP CMS’s offer. I think the argument has to be something like: “Symfony is an excellent object oriented framework written in the most popular web development language, and therefore allows ease of development for sophisticated software in a language that has a great abundance of programmers.”

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